Creationists strike back!!!

In response to my post on “Expelled” , someone named “Roxas” left some interesting comments. There’s quite a lot of material to get into, and there are some pretty common fallacies, so I’ve decided to make my response a full-blown blog entry. Yay! See, if you want more blog entries, all you have to do is leave comments. Hooray for the free exchange of ideas! (Roxas’s comments are boxed/bulleted)

  • Explain how the world was created then? The big bang?

The origin of life, the origin of the Earth and the origin of the universe are three separate questions. Evolution deals only with life. It has nothing to say about the Big Bang.

  • I always though that science explained that an object in motion stays in motion and an object at rest stayed at rest. unless acted upon by >>>>>>>> an outside force. God.

The “unmoved mover”? Really? That’s the best you’ve got? Theology gave up on that one quite awhile ago. Sigh…This mover is moving on.

  • Not to mention that I know for a fact that creationism(intelligent design) has been around far longer than evolution. It has stood the test of time, ridicule, slavery, and persecution. You don’t need a Bible to back that up. Historical facts (excluding the Bible) show that it has always been around

The germ theory of disease has only been around for a couple of centuries, and the belief that disease is caused by sin and/or demons has been around for thousands of years, so I guess we can stop taking antibiotics. Since you brought up slavery, that’s also been around a LOT longer than emancipation and the Bible itself endorses it pretty clearly (OT and NT) so I guess that’s okay too. Arguing from antiquity is even worse than arguing from authority. An argument stands or falls on it’s merit and relation to the facts. It doesn’t matter who or what makes it.

  • and that it has a better track record than evolution or darwinism.

Well, that’s just plain wrong. Creationism/ID makes NO predictions and has NO useful theoretical constructs. It’s simply a statement that “when things get too hard for us to understand, it must have been magic” Evolution is the backbone of our modern understanding of biology and medicine. For only one mundane example, it has predicted and confirmed the development and existance of antibiotic-resistant bacteria. Evolutionary theory is a incredibly useful tool. ID is a “just-so story”

  • All science proves to man is that we will never be able to completely understand it. It is beyond us. It points us to the fact that this all couldn’t of just happened. The closer you look at a piece of matter, (a cell, atom, dna) you find that it gets more and more complex and perfect. Really think about what you are saying. COuld it have all happened.

This is the same argument from ignorance / God of the gaps song and dance. If you don’t know the answer to a question, then YOU DON’T KNOW THE ANSWER! You can’t say “I don’t know, so therefore: God did it!” Apart from being a logically invalid position, it puts the believer in the unenviable position of watching his/her god shrink as we find the answers to more and more of our questions about the universe. What we do know is that our understanding of the universe is imperfect, but it is getting better. As time passes we are discovering more and more about the world. Do we make mistakes? Of course, we’re still human. The best thing about science is that it is structured to find those mistakes and discard them. Creationism and ID are stagnant and closed. There is no room for finding the truth when you assume that you already know it.

  • Even if you don’t believe in a god, it makes more sence to than to just think it a huge mega random mutation that mutated and mutated and mutated and mutated to make us.

You’re absolutely right, many mutations are for the worst. Those usually lead to the death of the unfortunate critter to carry them. But every once in awhile the mutations are beneficial, they help the critter survive and sucessfully pass on it’s genes. It’s a small, step by step ratcheting process, over millions of years, not a “huge mega random mutation”

  • Hello.

Hello.

  • Most mutations are usually for the worst and to have all of them good and a random spark of creation on a perfect planet suited for it….. Well you tell me. Genesis gives an easier analogy and it makes perfect sence.

Genesis gives no such analysis, it offers least two different, incompatible accounts of creation and the word “sense” is spelled with an “s”.

Okay, that was a little snarky, I guess that’s just who I am. In all honesty though, I’d like to thank Roxas for leaving his/her comments. It takes a lot of courage to put your beliefs out there for others to examine/critique, and the only way we can discover the real truth is to honestly weigh all the evidence and theories. Free speech + the marketplace of ideas + critical thinking = a better, truer world for all of us.

Commments? Questions? Responses? Short Skits? Interpretive dance? Leave me a comment or two and we’ll see if y’all can’t squeeze another blog entry out of me this week.

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3 Comments

Filed under Christianity, Pseudoscience, Religion, Science

3 responses to “Creationists strike back!!!

  1. Zacharias

    -does an interpretive dance involving flamingos and rocket launchers-

  2. …must…see…video!!!!

  3. Roxas

    Alright, I can tell you did your research. But I have more questions that I want to ask you. I know you are free to believe as you want, But I just want you to see things from another perspective as you said,

    “The only way we can discover the real truth is to honestly weigh all the evidence and theories.”

    If the origin of life, earth, and the universe are different, You still needed the origin of the universe and earth first. Life without the two would be wasted so as you said,

    “Evolution deals only with life. It has nothing to say about the Big Bang.”

    It really has everything TO DO with it. It was done with a sort of “design” as i see it.

    “The “unmoved mover”? Really? That’s the best you’ve got? Theology gave up on that one quite awhile ago. Sigh…This mover is moving on.”

    Well you explain it. science clearly states that objects dont move unless acted upon. did this come into affect afterward? I would like to hear more on your thought about this. In Theology God has always existed before, in the present, and past time. He is outside of time itself. He created it. He is not bound by it. Science states that matter or anything in fact cannot be created or destroyed. But nothing says that something that has always been cannot continue to be. I would just like to hear your thoughts.

    “Well, that’s just plain wrong. Creationism/ID makes NO predictions and has NO useful theoretical constructs. It’s simply a statement that “when things get too hard for us to understand, it must have been magic” Evolution is the backbone of our modern understanding of biology and medicine. For only one mundane example, it has predicted and confirmed the development and existence of antibiotic-resistant bacteria. Evolutionary theory is a incredibly useful tool. ID is a “just-so story”

    The statement about things being thought of as magic when you can’t explain them makes no sense. Since you brought up the Bible, it has clearly stated ahead of time in Job that the world is round when man thought it was flat and that it was suspended in space hanging by nothing. Also knowing that blood was the key part that holds the life of a person(Genesis). Many things (whether called a mere coincidence) have been called folly by the understanding of the day and were proven correct as we caught up to speed. When people say that evolution is true by the fact that many animals and humans have the same types of eyes, organs(specified by their type of course) and design, could you also think that maybe we look, act, and our DNA is close because we have a common Creator. I understand that evolution has had a key part in our understanding of science, but could that have just been a bit of luck since that made people think “I wonder how a cell could change, how could it be done” Really when you think about it I know that natural selection has helped the albino rats in the snow and ice blend in so that they were harder to be spotted by the birds, but where is your proof of actual evolving. Evolution had a few bones that they called a midget man that was assumed to show the link of monkeys and humans. The only other ones that I have heard of were two animals dying on top of each other apparently showing a transitional rodent to bird. If you really think about it we really have no idea what dinosaurs really looked like. we have their bones but cartilage and skin are decomposed. How do we know that a t-rex really looked the way that we picture him. his bones only give us a frame (now I am off subject). But the question remains, “Where is your proof of actual evolving.”

    “It puts the believer in the unenviable position of watching his/her god shrink as we find the answers to more and more of our questions about the universe.”

    Actually from my point of view it shows more and more that this could all not have been such a mere coincidence. It actually defends the fact that someone had to put all of this together. Someone had to put together this complex and perfect universe. It couldn’t have happened by chance. That is my view I understand but I just want others to really think about the little miracles around us that we are so used to like water. Water is a miracle liquid because of its hydrogen bonding. It stays a liquid for much longer than others because the hydrogen it closer to the oxygen atoms and therefore gives it a stronger attraction to it. Water fits perfectly for our environment as it is a liquid (which we need) and actually expands when it freezes unlike others liquids. If it contracted all the fish and waterlife would die and be crushed every winter. instead it insulates them.

    “Creationism and ID are stagnant and closed. There is no room for finding the truth when you assume that you already know it.”

    I hate to break it to you but if you continue to think that humans will one day understand everything, the one thing we will understand is that we are incapable of understanding everything and that we will never know the everything there is to know. We will continue to look deeper until we find that this couldn’t of just happened. It is to detailed and perfect.

    “It’s a small, step by step ratcheting process, over millions of years, not a “huge mega random mutation”

    First of all the step by step actually makes it harder to believe in evolution. The chances of a mutation actually happening for the better (which as you know are slim) are better to have happened all at once than these miracles happening over and over and over and over. There is actually more sense in thinking that a mutation happen at once. By the way to give you my oppinion, The earth has only been around for roughly 10,000 years according to Biblical study. God made it as if it had already been. He didn’t leave Adam and Eve with little seeds and tell them to plant all the trees an make rocks, and tend new born little animals. He made them, some full grown and some young, some rocks big, some little, the chicken first of course, and everything so that it you were to carbon date it it would seem to have been created/evolved over milions and billions of years because it would seem to go back forever. Like I said with Genesis God was, is, and will be so that breaks no law (not to mention that he made them). And I would like to know the other fallacies that you speak of.

    By the way I want to thank you for letting me speak my mind and thought out on this site. Even if we never agree I hope that we will have a better understanding of each other and our beliefs and maybe convince others to think more before they blindly follow the crowd. No offense take by my mispelling. I am really not looking over it as I type. Thank you for your time as you replied.

    Searching for a better understanding on evolution’s point of view,

    -Roxas

    P.S. I know that this is really off subject and if you don’t respond I will understand. Do you believe in life after death? or is this all that you believe we will ever have? Thanks again.

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